Reeve Explains 'Muhammad' as Dog's Name
The San Juan Capistrano councilman says the choice was meant to teach his kids about freedom, not as an insult to Muslims. Two disapproving colleagues scold him for "unacceptable" comments.
Naming his dog Muhammad, and later announcing it during a public meeting, was not meant to be disparaging to Muslims, San Juan Capistrano Councilman Derek Reeve said Tuesday.
In offering the first explanation of why he chose the name, Reeve said it was a decision made by his family in an exercise of free speech after teaching his children that in some parts of the world they could be sentenced to death for doing so.
Reeve mentioned his dogs' names Sept. 6 (the other is named America), as the council voted on plans for a dog park in the Northwest Open Space.
Dogs are traditionally considered unclean in the Arab world—a perception that caused Councilman Larry Kramer to ask the rest of the council to talk about proper decorum at Tuesday night's City Council meeting.
"We are in a position of authority. It's important we choose our words wisely," Kramer said. "I hope the council will say this kind of speech is not OK."
Kramer asked the council to discuss its standards of conduct and to rewrite its rules on decorum—requests that went unfulfilled.
Reeve, commenting on the 45-minute discussion that ensued with comments from the public, said, "What's most offensive [to me] is that we're not talking about anything important. We're talking about my damned dog."
Some residents agreed. Several who spoke during a public hearing said they preferred to have the council focus on other, more "pressing" issues, such as the city's infrastructure, high water rates and finances.
Reeve at some points during his explanation got choked up. He said this week had been a difficult one, with a "terrorist organization" reprimanding him for his public declaration of his dog's name.
Mayor Sam Allevato also had harsh words for Reeve.
"You have to be really careful about what you say" from the dais, Allevato cautioned. "These types of comments are not acceptable" and could lead to what some could consider a hostile work environment for City Hall employees, he said.
Allevato said a Muslim in the audience during the last City Council meeting was offended by Reeve's remark. He also said allowing such comments to be made would be a "slippery slope."
But Karen Lugo, a Riverside attorney who specializes in free speech, said "council members are free to speak in their individual capacity as public leaders."
"There is just simply no authority" to regulate decorum, she said.
Although stories about Reeve's comment got picked up by local and national media, Reeve said he received 100 emails supporting him.
On Friday, the Greater Los Angeles area office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations asked Reeve to apologize for his comment. In a press release, it said he showed "disrespect toward Islam’s revered prophet Muhammad by making [the] derisive public comment."
"I'm asking for decorum on the dais. Yet if we can't do that, all is lost," Kramer said, adding that this is "not a Muslim issue."
Also at Tuesday's meeting, the City Council:
- Because the meeting went until midnight, the council postponed to Oct. 4 its discussion about Reeve's proposal to mandate businesses use E-Verify.
- It voted 4-1 to—at a later date—rescind a 2009-open space agreement with the developers of a proposed assisted living community for seniors at Rancho Capistrano.
- Gave city staffers the go-ahead to start making improvements to the lemon grove site in the Eastern Open Space. The project includes installing an irrigation system and park benches, planting 218 valencia orange trees and holding a public contest to rename the new park.
... stay tuned for further coverage of the council's actions.
In This article
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Derek Reeve
32400 Paseo Adelanto # San, San Juan Capistrano, CA -
Mayor Pro Tem Larry Kramer
32400 Paseo Adelanto, San Juan Capistrano, CA -
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JessC
9:36 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
To Councilmember Kramer,
I hope you feel good about wasting our tax dollars talking about a non-issue. Next time, if you are offened by someone's comment, please do everyone a favor and take the issue up with the person in private.
To Mayor Allevato,
"You have to be really careful about what you say" from the dais," That's a politican for you. I prefer the truth, not what you think I want to hear.
Leo Beilin
11:09 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Hispanics name their kids "Jesus".what's the big deal. Did we ask the Islamics to come here or did they ask to come here?
Maybe,just maybe Islamics who think like that should not come to such a free-wheeling country like the United States and stick to more PC countries in Europe.
Steve Behmerwohld
9:42 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
Most of the speakers were not residents of San Juan. It was a little like the Jerry Springer show.
Several speakers said this was a "Freedom of Speech" issue for Councilman Reeve. What about Councilman Kramer's Freedom of Speech?
Jenna Chandler
9:49 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
That's true—thanks for pointing that out, Steve. There were people from other Orange County cities such as Yorba Linda and Huntington Beach who came to speak. Most of them talked about CAIR ...
KC
10:20 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
Hmmmm, what happened in Yorba Linda that was related to Islam?
Oh I remember!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM&feature=player_detailpage
Gary Rumain
5:47 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
What about it? Nobody's stopping him shooting his mouth off.
socalfam
2:07 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Kramer got his free speech - and lots of it. Thanks to Kramer exercising his free speech, he turned it inot an international incident. Way to go Kramer!
And Allevato exercising his free speech was priceless; he claims that we need to be "sensitive" when he has called constituents liars and worse, from the dais.
BOBBI AUSTIN
9:52 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
This is such a dumb statement... this is not the same freedom of speech when someone is trying to silence the other person? That is why we have the constitutional privilage it is to prevent people like Kramer from stopping people from speaking.
It is also interesting that the history of Muhammed was to kill or silence anyone who
would dare not believe he was a prophet and had mission to kill people who would not conform to his views. That over 600 years after Jesus who said we should love.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY MEXICANS ARE NAMED JESUS AND THEIR DOGS?
I don't see Christians yelling that's disrespectful. Why? because they don't teach bow down to my views.
They know freedom is offered to everyone it is a gift from God not a mandate.
Angi Stamm
4:58 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
First TO:KC who says "Hmmmm, what happened in Yorba Linda that was related to Islam? Oh I remember!" (with link to inaccurate smear video posted by CAIR regarding protest in Yorba Linda) This video shows disrespectful idiots at night outside the Islamic Community Center heckling muslims, this was not organized by ACT for America and there is not proof this is Tea Party activity either. ACT did have a peaceful protest earlier in the day at the community center, to raise awarness of the evening event at the community center, which had invited two radical Islamic extremist to speak and denounced the "white man" as the enemy and called for "war" and "jihad" against America....Second, the guy has the right in America to name his dog whatever he wants - end of story. However, this is San Juan Capistrano and they fine people who have Christian Bible Studies in their home. Mr. Reeve move to Arizona you will be welcomed here.
nick
11:45 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
KORAN: 008.007 Allah wished to confirm the truth by his words, "wipe the disbelieving infidels out to the last"
JessC
10:14 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
Jenna,
CAIR? Is this a special interest group? Can you elaborate please?
Thank you.
Jenna Chandler
10:18 pm on Tuesday, September 20, 2011
CAIR is the Council on American-Islamic Relations. I mention the group toward the end of this story: On Friday, the Greater Los Angeles area office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations asked Reeve to apologize for his comment. In a press release, it said he showed "disrespect toward Islam’s revered prophet Muhammad by making [the] derisive public comment."
Observer
6:12 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Reeve - DO NOT apologize to the organization of goons and thugs called "cair." I use lower-case on purpose. Hey cair - Anyone can "disrespect" your evil "prophet" who mass-murdered Jews and Christians when they wouldn't convert to Islam. Who had sex with a 9-year-old girl when he was 56. Who is nothing but a con man selling a bill of goods to you brainwashed barbarians. You don't tell Americans to apologize! Who the h*** do you think you are??! Everyone - NAME YOUR POOCH MOHAMET! ha-ha! I "disrespect" Islam, the KKKoran, and your Warlord "prophet!" Now, what are you gonna do about it, goons and thugs of cair??!!
nick
11:42 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/hamas-linked-cair-loses-tax-exempt-status.html
grainchaser
8:01 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
As of this time in America no one has the right to not be offended. That is free speech. One may question the relevance of Reeve's comment to the proceedings, but his right is absolute.
cair's motivations and goals are always suspect. Read "Muslim Mafia" for background.
Anyway, how special or sacred can the name be when so many muslims name their sons mohammed, or some variation thereof/
Raymond
8:31 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Just because the most common name is usually John in America, does not take away the fact that many millions of Latinos name their children Jesus, out of great respect and reverence for Christ Jesus. In the same way Muslims name their children after Muhammad out of reverence and respect for him.
If free speech means no one should be offended, maybe you should tell that to the families of those soldiers who had to conduct the funerals of their loved ones under hateful name calling of their deceased loved one. It was all over the news. Free speech is legal, doesn't mean people are not allowed to be offended, and it does not mean that the words they say are not offense either.
Raymond
8:25 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
"Reeve at some points during his explanation got choked up. He said this week had been a difficult one, with a 'terrorist organization' reprimanding him for his public declaration of his dog's name."
I am unsure which organization he is referring to or if they ever are considered one based on the "quotes" around the phrase, but he should be reprimanded. He obviously named his dog as a means of provocation (testing out his free speech), which is totally legal. But, when you say something legal and controversial, be ready to face the consequences of your actions. If he had said nothing, he could have saved that city council chamber from getting bogged down by conversation over his dog's name, and he could have spared himself those tears he shed. He is his own worst enemy in this story.
socalfam
2:13 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Raymond-
Did you suggest that Allevato be reprimanded when he said offensive things to constituents who criticized council actions (such as calling them liars or racists)? How about former councilman Hribar, who told a married woman (whose husband was sitting in the audience) from the dais that because she was expressing concern about a city issue, she obviously had "too much time on her hands" so needed to "take a lover" . Do you think he should have been reprimanded?
Just wondering if what's good for the goose is also good for the gander in your book of offenses.
Observer
12:02 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
NO, Reeve is a hero. DON'T BACK DOWN TO THE BARBARIANS, REEVE!
If you don't understand why this is important, Raymond, then YOU'RE the enemy, along with the Muzlims and barbaric islime.
Eric
5:08 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
You are missing the point. Muslims need to accept that they have no special power or control in this society to control speech, ideas, actions, or anything else. If they cannot (as this story and a million others suggest) and use threats of violence or threats of threats of violence, then they cannot be a part of our scoiety. I am already convinced that Muslims cannot be a part of American society.
John Shade
9:40 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
CAIR is a terrorist supporting organization that wishes to destroy America from within and install sharia law.
Get an education on islam
http://thereligionofpeace.com/
Sulayman F
10:16 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
I'm not buying it. If he named his dog "faggot" and then said he's only doing it "to teach free speech" then I don't think a lot of people would buy it either.
Shripathi Kamath
10:56 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
No, a lot of people will buy it. Which is precisely why he is doing it.
heidi
2:20 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
The difference here is that while the action of naming his pet 'faggot' might be offensive to some people/groups, it's unlikely to arouse the same fanatical ire and retaliation as it would among Muslims. Interesting that in the UK, Muslims can demonstrate in the streets, proclaiming their hatred for us and waving placards saying "Down with the West" and "Islam will conquer the West", etc - much more
provocative than what is happening here - AND GET AWAY WITH IT! Isn't this all a bit one-sided? But then, that's Muslims for you: one rule for them, one for us.
Mike Litoris
8:15 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
I don't think he'd call his dog "faggot", Sulayman. Every time he's in the park and calls his dog, 20 guys would come over asking him what he wanted. I doubt he's had any of that with his dog named Muhammed.
Mamie
10:30 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
I went to school with someone who named his dog "dammit." The guy would always say to his dog, "come here, dammit." "Stop that, dammit." "Let's go, dammit." "I love you, dammit," etc dammit. No one ever said or did anything about the dog's name. Dammit lived a great life and finally went to doggie heaven. Times have certainly changed.
Shripathi Kamath
10:50 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
How so? Do they now go to doggie hell?
Ronald Mcnut
11:04 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
If he called his dog something homophobic then he would be in alignment with the Quran, hadith and most (if not all) modern schools of sharia which interpret homosexuality as a punishable offence as well as a sin.
Shripathi Kamath
10:33 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
"In offering the first explanation of why he chose the name, Reeve said it was a decision made by his family in an exercise of free speech after teaching his children that in some parts of the world they could be sentenced to death for doing so."
I love politicians who'll trample on the flag than salute it in servile display of banal patriotism, when they do it to demonstrate that rights are more important than symbols.
"What's most offensive [to me] is that we're not talking about anything important. We're talking about my damned dog."
I dislike politicians who are dishonest even more.
They were not talking about his damned dog, they were talking about his announcement that he named his damned dog Muhammad to enrage a minority religion, pandering to the bigots who share his views.
That said, I rather have Reeve speak his mind freely. Dishonestly, if it comes to that.
As of now, he is Muhammad's poop-picker. Self-appointed.
"Vote for Reeve. He'll pick Muhammad's poop. He does it for free [speech]"
Should make a nice campaign slogan.
Observer
6:03 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
It's Muslims who are the bigots. Haven't you read the "Kill the Infidels" Qur'an war manual?
Ronald Mcnut
10:46 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
@sophie
CAIR leaders have been charged and convicted of terror related crimes in the past.
Here is just one example of several.
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003/06/cairs-legal-tribulations
The city councilman was egregiously off point with the dog-named-mohamed issue, but we should all remember that this is taking place in the context of increasing muslim immigration into the U.S., increasing aggression on the part of many Muslim groups to force their religion into our public sphere and the fact that Islam is an ideology and not a race or ethnicity. An ideology that is anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-free thinker.
Shripathi Kamath
11:04 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
" Islam is an ideology and not a race or ethnicity. An ideology that is anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-free thinker."
Islam is a religion. All religions are based on ideologies, so it is quite correct to call it that, if tediously.
As to it being anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-free thinker, that label is not exclusively reserved for Islam, is it? At least not in the US.
Observer
6:02 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Islam is not a religion. It's a supremacist militaristic political fascist ideology invented by a mass-murdering Warlord masquerading as a religion.
marcopolo
10:51 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
I see no problem with naming your dog whatever the hell you so choose. Silly that people would get so caught up in something frivolous like this when there are other, real issues to be discussed
Ronald Mcnut
11:00 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Look at how aggressive the Muslims were in organizing and racing to San Clemente over this. There goal is to domination, just look at every single nation where they form a majority and you will find freedom suppressed and Islam shoved down the throats of non-Muslims.
Shripathi Kamath
11:00 am on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
I agree.
What do you think about people naming their dogs what they choose, and announcing it at city council meetings?
Are they being frivolous? Discussing real issues?
SJCfamily
1:01 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
I was heartened and appreciative of all the defenders of free speech who showed up and spoke last night. There were at least 20 people including San Juan residents, who supported Councilman Reeve . Interestingly, NO ONE supported Kramer (except the other council members who probably wish they hadn't after they heard from their constituents). I wish you had reported on that Jenna.
One who spoke was an attorney who defended from a legal standpoint, our constitutionally guaranteed rights to free speech. She made the point that if we allow any group to dictate what we may and may not say based on whether anyone is "offended", then we are in violation of our constitution which is why the US Supreme Court weighed in on the case of the people protesting outside the funerals of slain soldiers and said that as offensive as anyone found it, our constitution allows it.
In other words, there is no law protecting anyone from being offended.
Personally, I am offended by people who claim to care about others feelings - as long as they are of the same political ideology - while making fun of or name calling those with whom they disagree, including people with disabilities as I saw at the council meeting last night and am reading on this forum.
It's hypocrisy at it's worst.
socalfam
1:11 pm on Wednesday, September 21, 2011
This was nothing but a failed attempt to take a political swipe at Reeve, who Allevato and Kramer don't like. Reeve is the only fiscal conservative on the council and often votes against the council majority's wasteful spending schemes with money that we clearly don't have.
Missing in action last night was Carole Matson, the woman who originally wrote the email to the council claiming to be offended by Reeve's dog's name. By the way, I understand she doesn't live in San Juan.
Matson happens to be a political opponent of the folks who ran the No on Distrito campaign. Matson verbally attacked them repeatedly in the newspaper and in a Patch online comment. So much for being sensitive to people's feelings or respecting their right to free speech.
This was less about offense than it was about politics.
OCPraetorian
10:24 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
You know your "fiscal conservative" declared bankruptcy to avoid paying his student loans back, right, SoCalFam? He took money from someone -- likely backed by taxpayers -- on his own free will, used it for his purpose and then refused to pay it back.
And now he's a "fiscal conservative?" And you're calling other people hypocrits?
Carole Matson
5:32 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
To socalfam. Hello dear ones, Carole Matson here. First, I'm so sorry I was not at
the meeting, you see I am extremely disabled, with terminal cancer. So I cannot always go and do what I like. Oh, second, you state that I do not live in SJC...again,
dear ones, I do live here and love this city tremendously. I live right up the hill from
where we fought on the measure that you said I was a "political opponent...I am
a hard core conservative, a long time Christian and I stand up for what I believe in.
I do not agree with the Muslim religion, however Jesus taught us to love EVERYONE
as ourselves...love the sinner, hate the sin. It is not my place to judge their religion,
nor is it Reeve's place to put their religion in the gutter. I love all people, and in that
I stand by my comments. You dear one, should be more loving to people like me.
Carole Matson
rick lyons
8:55 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Carole Matson, I am so sorry to hear about your terminal cancer. My heart goes out to you for that. However, you have not been very congenial to anyone that disagrees with your political views. Derek Reeve is also extremely disabled and has not figueratively speaking stand up to what you have complained about. I am sure Mr. Kramer is very sorry that he took your side.
If you are truly the hardcore conservative and long time Christian that you say that you are, you would have never supported Measure B as you did. In addition, you would not have criticized someone for the name of their dog. You state "it is not your place to judge their religion", well you certainly had not problem making a judgement on the name of their dog. It is obvious that your stating that you are a hardcore conservative and a long time Christian are false.
Mr. Reeve did not put anyone's religion in the gutter. His only crime is naming his dog a name that you did not agree with.
Mach037
10:11 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
To Carole Matson's reply to socalfam: "... love the sinner, hate the sin." In this case, I believe you are saying the sin is Islam. I agree, so I think I'll go on hating Islam. The sin, their religion, belongs in the gutter.
Justin
3:54 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Freedom of Speech comes with this little side note called tolerance. You must tolerate freedom of speech by others. Thats how you preserve it. Not tolerating a dogs name because it is offensive to muslims is sharia compliant. Its has already started people wake up.
Epi Phyte
4:29 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Folks, an artist by the name of Lars Vilks drew a picture of Mohammad as a dog in Sweden. He has been targeted for murder SEVERAL times since by multiple groups of muslims - one fellow was arrested just this past week. You can watch the adherents of the Rligion of Peace riot while chanting Allahu Akbar at Upsalla University on Youtube during one of his lectures if you like (his house was fire bombed the next day). Kurt Westergaard - the designer of the most prominent of the Danish cartoons - was also forced to cancel an event last week because of terroristic threats against his life. This is about the 5th or 6th multiparty murder plot for him - ALL ROPers from various countries and denominations. . .and where , exactly, is Molly Norris hiding again? Remember her? The lady who was forced to quit her job and disappear after coming up with "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day"? At any rate, the issue is timely and important and I don't care WHO is offended. Anybody who feels like naming their dog Mohammad and announcing the fact in public has my unqualified support on the issue.
OCPraetorian
1:22 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Well, Lars Viks wouldn't have made a good City Councilman. The point here isn't about Muslims or dogs. It's about whether a person, sitting on a dais where his words represent a city, should be sensitive to others.
Eric
4:54 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Excellent post.
Robert Rockwell
4:54 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
What an insult, to name a house pet after a war-mongering, pedophile terrorist.
nick
11:29 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
KORAN: 033.021 "You have in the Messenger of Allah a beautifull pattern of conduct fo any one to follow"
No wonder that many people say that the terorist have not corrupted their religion, ISLAM has corrupted them.
Epi Phyte
5:00 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsTIDekFGM&feature=related
Observer
5:49 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
In other words: Don't insult these people, Reeve, because they have been known to murder those who insult them, and other innocent people as well.
Eh, Mayor?
Observer
5:58 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Agree with you, Robert Rockwell. Naming a doggie after a mass-murderer (of Jews and Christians), a slave-owner (Mo owned Black slaves, too!), a thief (raided caravans), a pedophile (married Aisha when she was 6 and had sex with her when she was 9. MO was 56), and a 13-wife polygamist is NOT a recommended doggie name. The dog is way too good for the name.
george abrahams
8:11 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Reeve's point is that Muslims have a history of demanding a special exception from criticism of their ideology that no one else demands for their beliefs. Only Islam calls for the death of anyone who 'blasphemes' it. This is inimical with the American right of free speech. The councilmen who objected to Reeve fail to recognize the principles that are the foundation of the United States.
Eric
4:51 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Of course, it is obvious. It is only because Kramer and Allevato are cowards and are selling out our freedom to the Muslims.
nick
11:23 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
KORAN: 008.039 "So fight them until all opposition to Islam ends and all are obedient to Allah"
Bruce West
8:14 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
I'm confused. How do we know the dog was named after THAT Mohammed? There are more than one to choose from. And if it were named after THAT Mohammed does that mean he's insulting the dog?
nick
11:10 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
I hope he didn't name his dog after the "pedophile Mohammed". The ONE that had a 9 year old wife!
Ken Cavaretta
11:05 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
I find that what is happening in our Country is as far from the America that I once knew and fought for many years ago. The ingredients for a war in this country is rapidly being added to the pot. Mr. Reeve I urge you to stand behind your convictions Sir. You have the support of hundreds of thousands of Patriots in this country. A mass of fighting men and women who eventually will take the bull by the horns and once again fight to keep our country free. To doubt that the initiative is brewing is to admit complacency and ignorance. We stand with you Mr. Reeve. We will be watching and listening Sir!! You can count on us. I agree with Mr. Bruce West in that I feel the DOG has been Insulted.
Angry American
11:16 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
What a Joke...attack Jesus Christ, and that is freedom of expression...use the name of a child rapist, murderer and so much worse MOHAMMED, and somehow the whole world comes to a halt, and comes to vilify the person who would use his name, and call for a attack against them.
If not for having such a fine regard for my dog, I would be happy to name him mohammed too. For those of you on the peaceful side if islam (sadly the very quiet side) get your house in order. For the city council, why not just do your job and keep the city solvent and safe.
nick
11:21 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
KORAN: 048.029 "Mohammed is God's Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to on another"
Observer
11:49 am on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Any canine is so much better than the Warlord who unleashed the plague of Islam on our world it's not funny.
Dogs: 100
cair/Muslims/islam: - 0000000
Jenna Chandler
12:39 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Observer: Follow our terms of service and your comments won't be deleted. They can be found here: http://sanjuancapistrano.patch.com/terms. In short, don't post comments that are defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive.
Jenna Chandler
12:57 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Observer: If you read our terms, you'd know that comments should not be threatening or harassing. They should not promote racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual.
Observer
1:02 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Anyone who wishes to congratulate Mr. Reeve on his Freedom of Speech lesson, here's his e-mail: (There is no free speech in Islam).
dreeve@sanjuancapistrano.org
OCPraetorian
1:24 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Well, I'm glad all of you folks are so into the freedom of speech.
Pass the lighter, please, I have an American flag to burn. I'm sure you're all OK with that, too, right?
Eric
4:48 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
The only time you hear about "decorum" is when someone fails to lick the boots of the CAIR Islamacracy. How is it that all of the hate speech pouring out of every mosque and Islamic organization is adamantly protected under the mantle of freedom of speech, but when we exercise that same freedom, some cowardly dhimmi fool like Kramer has to stumble over himself to try to destroy freedom of speech. The answer is simple: people like Kramer are trying to destroy freedom of speech by caving in to the Muslims. Kramer should be ashamed of himself. If there are going to be special rules, laws, and "decorum" when it comes to Muslims, but there is no respect or decorum (just the opposite, really) from Muslims and Muslim groups like CAIR (an unindited co-conspirator in terrorism cases), then the US is over. So, Kramer: shut up. And Reeves: Thumbs Way Way Up.
Mach037
5:10 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Perfect replies, Eric and George Abrahams. All the evidence I find points to Islam and Shariah as not being compatible with the US Constitution. The sooner that becomes known to Liberals the sooner Islam will get the "respect" it deserves. Not all religions deserve the protection of the Constitution.
nick
11:59 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
KORAN: 008.059 "The Infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them"
Mach037
5:16 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Jenna wrote: "Dogs are traditionally considered unclean in the Arab world—a perception that caused Councilman Larry Kramer to ask the rest of the council to talk about proper decorum at Tuesday night's City Council meeting."
This makes it sound like Kramer wants to align himself with the Arab World rather than his own constituents. Are we living In the Arab World or the Western World?
Eric
5:21 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
dead on it, Mach. We see here how the liberal media is doing its part to destroy our society with insidious little bits like that from Jenna. By writing that in a non-judgmental way, she is attempting to lend legitimacy to that view. That same sort of suicidal journalism is found in the New York Times and all the other liberal publications out there. But the thing is, we see it as plain as day and it makes us Americans angry that our tradition of freedom and tolerance within the law is being poisoned from within and without.
chandamamo
8:39 pm on Thursday, September 22, 2011
Our Great Nation was built on the value of respect and religious pluralism. OC residents support and thank Mayor and Larry Kramer for their your voice on equal rights for All Americans, including Muslims, and all other religions. I am shocked shocked by the comments of Mr. Reeve. These types of comments are against our American Values and Respects.
nick
11:14 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
it has been said that Appeasing Islam is like swimming in shark infested water with an open wound.
Pete0097
5:09 am on Friday, September 23, 2011
My dogs name is Paco and he produces little muhammads when I take him out for a walk. That way the people in my neighborhood aren't offended when I call the excrement other more common names like "poop"
John Shade
5:39 am on Friday, September 23, 2011
An excellent article from April, 2008 describing what islam is not, including a "saturation index" of what happens when a % of a nations population is islamic.
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30675
"Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components......."
Click the link above for entire article
Carole Matson
10:17 am on Friday, September 23, 2011
Good morning Rick lyons and Mach037...regarding your comments. I'd like to understand your thinking. So, lets say there is a Principal of a school whose son
owns a snake. They decide to name that snake, lets say, "Dike". Then the Principal
takes the snake to school show and tell and announces to all that they named the
snake "Dike", giggles about it. We all have freedom of choice, we all have free speech, thank our Lord, however when you are in the public arena, you must be
cautious and conscious of the way you exercise those very special rights.
Carole Matson
rick lyons
3:35 pm on Monday, September 26, 2011
Carole, unfortunately you missed the City Council meeting. Had you been there, you would have heard the constitutional attorney tell the City Council, that just because you are a City Council member you do not give up your freedoms. One of those freedoms, is the freedom of speech. She also cited case law in regards to that. I respectfully disagree with you. The public arena is no different than the private arena. I talk the same way privately as I would publicly. Don't you?
In regards to your snake analogy, there is nothing wrong with the name Dike as there is nothing wrong with the name Mohammed. You can make a big deal out of anything you want to, if you choose. For me, if I had terminal cancer like you said you did, there are allot more things that I would choose to do with my life than worry about a dog named Mohammed.
Carole Matson
3:48 pm on Monday, September 26, 2011
This is not about the law, its about loving thy neighbor as yourself. I do not dislike
Mr. Reeve, just his comment. Just because there is not a law about it, would you go
up to someone who is mentally challenged and tell them "YOUR STUPID"!!!!?
nick
11:18 pm on Saturday, September 24, 2011
Koran: 009.123 "Believers, fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear him"
infidel4life
9:20 pm on Sunday, September 25, 2011
TY for the saturation index (http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30675)
i have to show more people that
Mach037
4:21 pm on Monday, September 26, 2011
Carole Matson's comment of "Ths is not about the law..." shows that she is clearly not up to the debate, considering the example she provided.
Carole Matson
4:32 pm on Monday, September 26, 2011
Oh dear ones....you "seem to be" so full of hate; anything I say cannot get through to you two. I will continue to pray to our dear Lord that He will open your eyes; that you will not be so frigid in your thinking; so unable to open your hearts to others who are not just like you and that you read your Bible and understand God's Word. I will no longer be responding as it is useless.